Scottish Social Security Consortium

Minutes of meeting 20 November 2006

Present:
Maggie Kelly - Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland (Chair)
Angela Toal - Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland
Alice MacAlister - One Parent Families Scotland
Lindsay Isaacs - CAS (minute-taker)
Craig Dunlop - Shelter

Graham Gould - External Relations, Jobcentre Plus Scotland
Linda Prattis - External Relations, Jobcentre Plus Scotland

Apologies
David Brown, Help the Aged Collette Cummins, RNIB

Welcome
Maggie Kelly welcomed everyone to the meeting. Group members and external speakers introduced themselves to one another.

External Speakers: Jobcentre Plus Scotland
Linda Prattis started the informal discussion by detailing the changes to the structure of Jobcentre Plus (JCP) that had led to the creation of an Scottish External Relations Team, which has the remit of liaising with all key strategic partners and stakeholders. In addition, each of the six JCP districts in Scotland now has an External Relations Manager, who has a similar remit but at a local level. In some cases, the focus is on building new relationships, whilst in others it is trying to re-build relationships that have existed in the past, but fallen away. Linda stressed that this is still a relatively new set-up, with the overall aims of:

• Raising the standard of service provision
• Building relations
• Improving communications

Linda noted that she has the lead for building relations with the voluntary sector. She has been working particularly closely with RNIB, addressing issues such as the fact that blind and partially sighted incapacity benefit claimants do not get invited to work focused interviews, and are therefore not being offered the same level of support as other claimants. She has also been conducting workshops with employers to try and establish ways of encouraging people who are blind or partially sighted into work, e.g. through improved recruitment processes. In addition, JCP is looking at improvements that it can make internally. For instance, blind and partially sighted people cannot currently make use of the Jobpoint services on offer in JCP offices. However, JCP is planning to address this by piloting software in Musselburgh JCP that would result in a 'talking Jobpoint'. The group noted that this would also assist people with literacy problems.

The External Relations team has also produced a leaflet promoting the benefits of volunteering as a good way of improving claimants' links with the job market and building peoples' skills and confidence.

Alice MacAlister asked Linda how some of the new initiatives that she was describing fitted in with existing initiatives such as the New Deal. Linda explained that the programmes she had been describing were smaller scale and local, with a focus on improving service levels and overall accessibility, rather than being national schemes with strict eligibility criteria. Districts tend to set up and manage their own initiatives, rather than this happening at a national level, as they have a far better understanding of the local labour market and far better relationships with local stakeholders.

The group then discussed issues with the marketing of smaller scale, local initiatives. As there are hundreds of these projects taking place across Scotland, with marked variations between - and even within - JCP districts, this can make the initiatives hard to market and therefore hard for advisers/intermediaries to keep track of and recommend to their clients. Linda commented that a one size fits all approach does not work as different methods will be appropriate in different circumstances eg flyers in doctors' surgeries might be a suitable way of targeting an initiative aimed at helping IB claimants. Contacting the district External Relations Manager is therefore the best way to find out about what is taking place at a local level.

The group then asked about the impact of the new City Partnerships that are being progressed in Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow as part of the Government's programme of welfare reform. Linda commented that the emphasis is on development at a local level, and so again these are being taken forward by the district External Relations Managers rather than at a national level. Lindsay commented that, once the City Partnerships are more under way, the Consortium hopes to get a representative from each of the Scottish pilot cities to come and speak to the group.

Graham updated the group on the partnership agreements that JCP is developing with a number of its stakeholders. The intention behind these is to improve communications in some areas, and to formalise good communications in the areas where they already exist. JCP is currently developing these with Citizens Advice Bureaux and SCVO amongst others, and hopes to replicate this initiative with other organisations.

Overall, Linda and Graham noted that the structure of JCP has been very volatile recently, but is starting to settle down. This means that JCP can now start to identify areas where communications are good, and areas where those links are missing or have been eroded. There is a real commitment to change at the highest levels of JCP, and the hope is that this can soon be translated into improvements in communications and, ultimately, service delivery.

Maggie thanked Linda and Graham for coming and speaking with the group. It was agreed that it would be useful to have an update from them at a future Consortium meeting.

Minutes of the previous meeting
Minutes of the meeting held on 28 September 2006 were agreed as an accurate record.

Matters arising

Update on new HMRC version of COP26
HMRC had intended to issue an updated version of its leaflet 'What happens if you've paid too much tax credit?' (also known as Code of Practice 26 or COP 26) in November. The new version would reflect the commitment made by the Chancellor in the 2005 pre-budget report to protect claimants' income levels when recoveries are made in-year, in the same way that they are protected when recovery occurs at the end- of year. Although the intention was to introduce this change in recovery by November 2006, no updated version of COP26 had been issued. Lindsay reported that she had been unable to attend the last meeting of the Tax Credit Consultation Group in London, but that she was unaware of any email correspondence relating to this matter. [Post meeting note: in early December, the Paymaster General issued a written statement to the effect that HMRC is unable to update its IT systems to allow for this change in practice to happen before April 2007. In the meantime, clients experiencing hardship as a result of in-year recovery should request additional payments].

Update on HMRC tax credit Ready Reckoner
At the last Consortium meeting, Lindsay had reported that the Pay Master General made a statement in Parliament in July about providing claimants with a tax credits ready reckoner. A CAB adviser had questioned whether, when considering challenges under its Code of Practice on Overpayments, HMRC could use this as evidence that claimants should have known they were receiving an overpayment. Lindsay had fed these concerns back to HMRC and reported to the Consortium that she had received a guarantee that any implications would be made clear if the tool were rolled out. CAS had agreed to keep a watching brief on this issue, and will report back to the Consortium.

Scottish Campaign on Welfare Reform (SCoWR) update
Two SCoWR representatives - David McNeish from CAS and John Dickie from CPAG in Scotland - attended the Parliamentary Labour Party meeting at Westminster on 10 October to outline SCoWR's concerns with the proposed welfare reforms. David and John outlined the areas that SCoWR feels risk undermining the policy intent, namely adequacy of benefit levels, compulsion and resources available for reform. A number of the MPs present questioned these concerns. Frank Roy, for instance, asked how SCoWR could be concerned about benefit levels before these were known. Anne Begg raised a concern with SCoWR's choice of language, saying that the use of the word 'compulsion' instead of conditionality was actually creating fears that people would be pushed back to work before they were ready. Jim Devien questioned the style of campaigning that SCoWR had adopted, whilst Jim Sheridan commented that he had not been lobbied at all and therefore questioned the widespread concern claimed by SCoWR.

David and John responded by saying that it was helpful to hear these concerns and it would have been useful to have this dialogue earlier. They reiterated that SCoWR is campaigning on welfare reform and not against it.

Lindsay informed Consortium members that the Welfare Reform Bill is currently at the Committee stage. Due to limited resources, SCoWR has not been putting any amendments forward on its own. Instead, it has chosen to support the amendments being put forward by Citizens Advice and CPAG in London that tie in with SCoWR's agreed priorities. A key concern is trying to ensure that passported benefits, including free prescriptions, are extended to claimants of the new Employment and Support Allowance.

Information Exchange
Angela Toal from CPAG in Scotland reported that HMRC had announced a Change Programme which will transform how it does business. Although HMRC claims that it will maintain a face to face service in any outlet where that currently exists, there are concerns that the office closures the Change Programme makes reference to will result in significant staff cuts and a drop in standards of service. HMRC intends to consult with stakeholders, and the Scottish regional review programme will start in March 2007.

Maggie Kelly from CPAG in Scotland circulated a copy of a welfare law update that will appear in the December 2006 edition of SCOLAG. She highlighted areas of particular interest, such as amendments to regulations which mean that, from 2 October 2006, IS or JSA claims can be backdated for up to a month when a claimant has been unable to get through on the phone because the lines are busy or out of order. Angela also drew attention to a section of the document on recent case law and, in particular, the issue of free personal care and its impact on AA payments. A recent Commissioner's decision has held that AA is not payable for anyone getting free personal care payments, as these payments are paid for the 'costs of the accommodation' (which encompass not just bricks and mortar, but also ancillary services) out of public funds.

There was some discussion about the item in the article relating to people from abroad, and Maggie agreed to clarify these points. [Post meeting note: Maggie reports that the October 2006 changes in immigration rules and the subsequent amendments to the benefit regulations do not alter the current situation for those who have exceptional leave to remain, humanitarian protection or discretionary leave as far as entitlement to benefits is concerned. In other words, they remain able to claim means tested benefits in the usual way as at present].

Craig Dunlop from Shelter Scotland reported that Shelter in London had recently published a report into the Local Housing Allowance pathfinders, and this will soon be available on their website. The overall conclusion is that the pathfinders have not made a substantial difference - processing times remain largely the same due to the Verification Framework, and rent shortfalls have not been significantly reduced (particularly amongst young people as the Single Room Rent restrictions still apply).

Lindsay reported that she had met with FOCUS, part of the Richmond Fellowship in Scotland. They have launched a campaign, called Giveme5, which aims to increase the permitted work earnings disregard by £5, from £20 to £25. The disregard was last raised five years ago, in 2001 (from £15 to £20). If someone earns above the current limit of £20, they will face a reduction in benefits - this loss of entitlement can call into question the viability of them trying out work in this way. CAS has formally signed up to the campaign. If other organisations are interested in doing so, they should contact the campaign organiser, Stephen McNulty, on 0141 779 5883/5290 or by email at smcnulty@trfs.org.uk

Topics for future meetings
Possible future topics were suggested:

• City strategy pilots
• Update from Jobcentre Plus external relations (in late 2007)
• Integration loans for refugees (first raised in September 2006 meeting by Helen Fordyce from SRC) Maggie to investigate
• HMRC Change Programme and potential impact (middle of next year)

AOB
Dates of next year's meetings:

Wednesday 21 February, CPAG in Scotland, Glasgow
Tuesday 8 May, CAS, Edinburgh
Thursday 27 September, CPAG in Scotland, Glasgow
Monday 19 November, CAS, Edinburgh

Back to the Scottish Social Security Consortium main page

For more information contact:
Judith Paterson
Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland,
Unit 9, Ladywell
94 Duke Street,
Glasgow G4 0UW
0141 552 3303
email jpaterson@cpagscotland.org.uk

Abigail Bremner
Citizens Advice Scotland
Spectrum House
2 Powderhall Road
Edinburgh EH7 4GB
0131 550 1000
email bremnera@cas.org.uk