Scottish Social Security Consortium

Inaugural Meeting
Thursday 22 November 2001 at Citizens Advice Scotland

Present
Danny Phillips, Chair,
Judith Paterson, (CPAG in Scotland)
Sally Witcher (social policy researcher)
Rosella MacKenzie (Help the Aged)
Stephanie Millar (Update)
Richard Norris (SAMH)
Simon Osborne (CPAG)
Myles, Una Bartley (CAS)
Angela Toal (The Action Group)
Brian Ryan, Jacqueline Doyle (SALC/East End Community Law Centre)
Jim Pearson (Alzheimer Scotland - Action on Dementia)
Mark Neale (Department for Work and Pensions)
Howie McDonald, Jacqui Jackson (Homelink)
Marie Burns (DAS/GAMH)
Peter Kelly (Scottish Low Pay Unit)

Apologies
Susan Drew (Highlands Advice & Information Network),
David Johnson (Waverley Trust),
Linda Kerr (Enable),
Susan Elsley (Save the Children),
Bob Burrows (Money Advice Scotland),
Maggie Mellon (NCH Scotland),
Helen Chambers (Carers Scotland).

Malcolm Wicks, Parliamentary Under Secretary at the Department for Work and Pensions had been scheduled to speak at this inaugural meeting but in the event had had to return to London. He sent his apologies to the meeting and his assurances that he would speak at a future meeting if invited.

1. Introducing the consortium
Danny Phillips introduced the Scottish Social Security Consortium.

He explained how it came to be set up. Organisations represented on CPAG in Scotland’s liaison group agreed that setting up such a forum would be a useful initiative. In Scotland, there is no equivalent to the Social Security Consortium in London, a forum for voluntary sector policy officers. The Scottish Local Authority Welfare Rights Association (SLAWRA) provides a forum but exclusively for local authority workers. There is also a welfare rights advisers forum as part of the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. But before the SSSC, there has been no social security forum in Scotland aimed at national voluntary sector organisations.

The hope is to involve both rights workers and policy workers so that as well as serving as a useful information exchange, the Consortium would also have the potential to take up issues on a policy level. Each meeting could look at one or two issues.

2. Speaker: Mark Neale, Director for Children, Poverty and Housing Costs, Department for Work and Pensions
Mark Neale discussed the government’s approach to tackling poverty. The Prime Minister’s commitment is to eradicate child poverty by 2020 and to halve it by 2010. Poverty levels in the UK are high relative to other European and OECD countries.

He said that the government’s strategy is three-fold:

• Enabling people of working age outside the labour market to get work
  - through initiatives to make work pay (working families’ tax credit, minimum wage and improved childcare provision);
  - through active help to get into work (eg New Deal programmes)
  - through the creation of Jobcentre Plus (better services and environment, advice and support)
• Breaking cycles of deprivation within families
  - through Sure Start, raising school standards, consideration of health and transport (noting that the Scottish Executive is responsible for many of the policy areas involved in poverty targets)
• Effective support through the benefit and tax system for those unable to work, especially families and pensioners
  - the Minimum Income Guarantee gives pensioners more money;
  - the proposed Pensioners Credit will have reformed capital rules so that pensioners with savings are not penalised;
  - IS levels had been raised for families
  - the Integrated Child Credit will provide a portable credit in and out of work.

He went on to talk about poverty measures. A Social Inclusion Report is soon to be published which will set out European indicators of poverty. Despite having targets for reducing poverty, the government has not decided how to measure it. They need a few straightforward measures of poverty.

Q. David Brownlee asked about the relationship between the proposed pensioners credit and housing benefit. Most of any increase in the value of the credit will be lost in the HB means test unless there are reforms.

A. As part of the 2002 spending review, the government are looking at HB reforms, both administrative reforms and simplifying the benefit rules. There should be some reforms in place by 2003 when the new tax credits are introduced.

Q. Simon Osborne asked how they were going to deal with the consequences of the industrial dispute in the Jobcentre Plus Pathfinder areas. CPAG has heard that there are people in Aberdeen who are not being paid their benefit.

A. Don’t know but will find out and write to CPAG.

Q. Simon Osborne asked how Jobcentre Plus will be monitored and evaluated.

A. There will be a number of indicators of performance. Is it successful in getting people into work? Does it provide a better service to claimants (eg testing through mystery shopping)? Does it meet employers’ needs? The ONE evaluations were equivocal because personal advisers spent too much time on benefits. In Jobcentre Plus people will see a benefits adviser as well as a labour market adviser.

Q. Howie McDonald asked about transitional HB. At present for people in supported accommodation, HB is an entitlement, but from 2003 it will be at the discretion of the local authority. It is important to maximise take-up now since budgets will be based on pre-2003 spending levels. Some local authorities, and the Scottish Executive, are giving wrong information about transitional HB and attempting to cap spending. What is the government doing about this?

A. Don’t know but will find out.

3. Speaker: Sally Witcher, social policy researcher and former Director of Child Poverty Action Group
Sally gave a presentation on effective social security lobbying in a Scottish context. See attached notes. In her opinion it was worth approaching the Scottish Parliament on social security matters despite the fact that this was reserved to Westminster. If you have the backing of the Scottish Parliament, that may lend weight to your arguments in Westminster.

4. Future meetings

• The group discussed the role of the Consortium.
• The SSSC could educate MSPs on the impact of social security changes.
• The SSSC could help members to stay up to date with changes through an information exchange.
• The SSSC could be a support to isolated workers. Can bounce ideas off each other. Would be good to be able to share rights information on a daily basis.
• Good to combine policy and rights issues.
• Would like to have email group. Agreed to swap contact details between members of the group.
• Providing a means of information sharing was a main reason for wanting to set up the consortium. In Scotland, groups are often not as well resourced as groups based in London, and often workers have a remit wider than just welfare rights which makes it difficult for them to keep up with developments in the field.
• SSSC should concentrate on information sharing. Once that’s up and running successfully, could then look at moving on to doing lobbying/campaigning.

5. Areas of work/issues of concern

6. Next meeting
Una has written to Malcolm Chisholm to invite him to talk to the Consortium about free personal care and attendance allowance. Waiting for a reply pending expected executive reshuffle. Hoping to have meeting in the week beginning 21 January.

Agreed to have a regular information exchange to include a case law update, new developments/consultations, issues of interest.

Back to the Scottish Social Security Consortium main page

For more information contact:
Judith Paterson
Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland,
Unit 9, Ladywell
94 Duke Street,
Glasgow G4 0UW
0141 552 3303
email jpaterson@cpagscotland.org.uk

Abigail Bremner
Citizens Advice Scotland
Spectrum House
2 Powderhall Road
Edinburgh EH7 4GB
0131 550 1000
email bremnera@cas.org.uk